The reason behind the careful promotion of Hova’s newest classic is because the film also has a soundtrack of brand new music. Giving a diverse introspect into the motion picture is Public Enemy founder and legendary producer, Hank Shocklee.
Shocklee’s revolutionary production techniques and knowledge of Hip Hop’s history made him a perfect selection to provide five songs on the soundtrack. Noted for his work with nearly ever rap music pioneer, Shocklee understands that music is about evolution. With change comes acceptance and without one or the other Hip Hop wouldn’t be around today.
Hank Shocklee Interview Transcription:
DJ Booth: What’s goin’ on ya’ll? It’s your boy “Z,” doin’ it real big, and joining me inside the DJ Booth is a man who has had his hands on nearly every major project hip hop has ever seen. From his days as a DJ-turned-producer for Public Enemy, to his work on the official soundtrack for the new film, “American Gangster,” please welcome music innovator and visionary, Hank Shocklee – how are you?
Hank Shocklee: I’m good, man – how you doing?
DJ Booth: I am doing great. I’m anticipating the arrival of both the soundtrack and the film, as I’m sure you are.
Hank Shocklee: Oh yeah, definitely. I think that it has a bunch of different things for a lot of the heads that are out there. It’s good for the producers – for me it’s like the producers’ 101. It gives you some really cool things that you can sample from, gives you some really cool ideas on where to go musically and things of that nature.
DJ Booth: Well, I can’t wait to hear it. For those who know that you must be important since you’re on the phone with me, but don’t know exactly what you’ve done in your career up to this point, it would probably take a good two or three hours for you to justifiably explain your track record. So briefly, walk everyone through how you got to where you are today.
Hank Shocklee: Well, I started as a DJ just like yourself. I went to radio, and did some things on college radio. From there, I produced then created a group called Public Enemy. I started producing other artist such as Slick Rick and LL and Run, and the list goes on. I did some work with Janet Jackson, and Madonna. I’ve done work with Mary J. Blige; I’ve done work with K-Ci and Jojo. I’ve done soundtrack work with Juice and Dangerous Minds and Friday Night Lights – I can just go on, man.
DJ Booth: You’ve been around this industry for a few decades now. Back when the national consensus was that hip hop was just a fad that would sink into obscurity, what led you to believe that more than twenty years later it would still be thriving?
Hank Shocklee: It’s funny because I didn’t really even think that it would be. When you’re doing anything, people are telling you, “That ain’t gonna last, this ain’t gonna happen.” You either don’t believe them or don’t disprove them, ‘cause you’re just in it. I just knew that there was something that was very captivating about hip hop music. It was something that was always intriguing to me. And I guess that the most incredible moment for me was going to my first large-scale hip hop concert at Madison Square Garden, where it was the Run DMC Raising Hell tour. And seeing that, man– at that time hip hop was relegated to just clubs. You was in a cafeteria, you was at a hall, maybe at a VHW hall, or a ballroom.
DJ Booth: It hadn’t hit mainstream yet…
Hank Shocklee: Nah, it didn’t. It definitely didn’t go to a level of being at a concert. And the thing that really blew my head was that when you got the radio stations are doing them at giant stadiums. And that just goes to show you, you know, the power that hip hop has built upon itself.
DJ Booth: Definitely. Hank Shocklee has been an executive, an A&R marketing and publicity specialist, a tour manager, a DJ, and, of course, a producer. So, in what capacity do you feel your contributions to hip hop have made the largest impact?
Hank Shocklee: Oh, wow – I would have to say in the area of production. I came into it and developed something which is a production team. I wanted to do hip hop more like an assembly line kind of a situation, more like Ford Motor Company. [I focused on] the advancements of production, the techniques that go into producing a record and the speed in which it was delivered. So this innovative thing that we’ve created, known as interludes in records, we’ve done marketing as far as taking records and marketing your records between records. So, for example, there would always be a single that we would release that was off of the back of another album that would be setting up the next record. There’s things that the whole street team situation, is stuff that we’ve developed and built because as the group Public Enemy we were probably one of the only groups that really never got no radio play. So we had to rely on street techniques – we had to rely on media, interviews, mix shows, which now became mix tapes. So we had to rely on the grassroots elements of developing.
DJ Booth: As an innovator, what is the nicest compliment someone has ever paid you?
Hank Shocklee: Oh, the fact that I’ve inspired them from being in the belly of the beast if you would, or being in jail or incarcerated, or have been involved in doing drug transactions. Cats that have uplifted their lives and came to me and said they’re doing things – like, one became a lawyer, and one has entered music. I think that inspiring people from negative to positive is probably the best tribute or compliment that anybody could ever pay me.
DJ Booth: Certainly. Hank, looking back on the ground you broke with artists such as the Beastie Boys, of course you mentioned Run DMC, EPMD, LL, who did you work with in the early stages of their career that you thought would become so much more than maybe they amounted to?
Hank Shocklee: Oh, God. You know something – I would have to say Slick Rick. Slick Rick is probably one of the most underrated, talented artists that’s out there. He has multiple talents. I think that he has talents that could have been used on screen – he could have been in television, movies, plays, he could have written plays. The guy’s a prolific producer, he’s a musician, he’s a storyteller, and he’s a writer. To me he’s the most talented cat that I’ve worked with that really didn’t blossom into the level that I thought that he could probably blossom into.
DJ Booth: Too late for Slick Rick to finally get that accomplished?
Hank Shocklee: Well, I don’t think so – I don’t think it’s ever too late. If you have the impetus to create, and you’ve got the talent and you have the drive to go out there and do it, I don’t think that there’s anything that’s too late.
DJ Booth: The list of artists that you’ve worked with reads like a “Who’s Who” of this industry. So is there anyone, living or deceased, that you haven’t yet had the pleasure of working with, who you’d love to collaborate with musically?
Hank Shocklee: Notorious BIG and Tupac. One of the reasons why is because I like BIG from a number of different standpoints. People sit there and say BIG is one of the best rappers, and that’s easy to say, but not many people know why he’s one of the best rappers. Before BIG, when you wanted to have an R&B style rapper such as Heavy D or a Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince, there were R&B style rappers, and there were street rappers. There were always those delineations. But there was never an artist that could combine the sensibilities of being both an R&B rapper and being a street rapper at the same time. And then there was even very few that could give you stone cold rhymes, and at the same time give you some story. I still haven’t seen an artist as clever, who has the imagination and the talent that BIG had. I worked with some of the most driven artists on this planet. To me, LL probably ranks number one. Ice Cube ranks number 2. Chuck D ranks number 3. KRS-One – I mean, there’s cats that are driven – Tupac, to me, man, was driven beyond belief.
DJ Booth: Taking the characteristics that you just used to describe both Biggie and Tupac, it’s been a while since both of them unfortunately have passed. Why is it, do you feel, that no one has been able to hear what you were able to just describe, and at least try to emulate what they did?
Hank Shocklee: It’s a lot of reasons. One of the reasons why Jay-Z is such a phenom today is because of the timing in which he lives in. He’s what I consider to be on the cusp. He’s young enough to understand the nuances of today, but he’s old enough to understand yesterday. He’s the generation that came after us, but at the same time he studied us. So that, in itself, gives him the sensibilities to understand the nuances from both sides. He got the songwriting from the old school; he can mix it with the lingo, and the iconic rap street sensations of today.
DJ Booth: Jay certainly has that unique combination. Let’s talk about Mr. Carter for a second. When you first heard that Jay-Z was creating a new album inspired by and titled, “American Gangster,” what was your initial reaction?
Hank Shocklee: I thought that that was very clever. When you look at Jay, Jay’s a brilliant marketing guy, as well as being a brilliant artist. He understands the scenario more than anything. What is the thing that most period-piece movies lack? It’s connection to the streets of today. So once again Jay-Z’s becoming that bridge between the old and the new. You go back to the early roots of hip hop, you’re gonna find blues, you’re gonna find funk, you’re gonna find R&B. And what is the era that hip hop has been taking from? It’s basically anywhere from 1969 to 1979. So if the movie itself is Frank Lucas’ life from the period of 1969 to 1973. Thus it’s the beginnings and the early bridges of not only funk, but also the forefather of hip hop.
DJ Booth: You’re responsible for six songs on the motion picture soundtrack to the aforementioned Ridley Scott-directed “American Gangster.” Having worked on soundtracks for films such as “Dangerous Minds,” “Juice,” and “He Got Game,” to name a few – explain the creative process that goes into shaping a soundtrack. How did you go about shaping new material for this soundtrack?
Hank Shocklee: First thing you have to do is understand, ‘cause it’s a period piece, the nuances of that period of time. For example, if you’re going to make music in 1997, you have to use the same techniques, the same sensibilities, the same recording situations that were done in 1997. You can’t use something that came out in 2004, because it didn’t exist yet in 1997. Then you also gotta understand what kind of records and what kind of music that was out at that time.
DJ Booth: Well it seems as though you were able to have the foresight and the education to properly do that, and something else that you’re creating is a book about the making of what is arguably the best rap album ever created, Public Enemy’s, “It Takes A Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back,” is that correct?
Hank Shocklee: Yes it is.
DJ Booth: Who or what in your career, Hank, has held you back?
Hank Shocklee: Oh, man – you know something? I would say non-progressive thinking.
DJ Booth: Explain…
Hank Shocklee: Change is inevitable. Any time that the forces that be want to control things, they wanna hold back change. So thus the biggest thing that holds you back is moving forward. And so everybody wants to keep you back in the past, they wanna keep you doing what you’ve done before. No one wants you to grow and to expand, and to create new ideas and to express yourself in new ways. Most artists when they try to do that, what happens? Most people sit there and say, “Well, they’re fallin’ off,” or, “They not givin’ me what they used to give me.” We become romantically attached to a sound or a period in our lives, and we expect people to be in the same place, even though the fact that we are growing stronger, we’re moving forward, we’re growing older, we have more wisdom, we have more understanding. So we want to share those things.
DJ Booth: Well, music has always been about evolution – it’s just also about acceptance, and I think that’s definitely the gap that people need to bridge. Wu-Tang is wrapping up their new album, “8 Diagrams,” for release this December. So what are the chances, Hank, that you can convince Chuck D to return to the studio for a brand new Public Enemy album?
Hank Shocklee: It could be very great, or it could not exist at all. Until we come back to a state where we’ve both kind of done what we want to do, and now both of our visions are moving down the same lane, and we’re sharing the same vision, the same goal – then we can go back in the studio and work again. But until that happens, there’s no sense in forcing it. I see so many situations where people go into the studio and they’re forcing that issue. And you know something? The one thing that you can’t fool is the consumer. They’re gonna know and sense it, that something’s not right. Just like the minute that you sensed Hi-Tek was no longer gettin’ down with Talib. Nobody didn’t even have to tell you that. And it’s not about the fact that the beats wasn’t good, it’s the fact that there was just a certain synergy, a certain connection that those two had when they was workin’ together. And when it feels forced, the public goes, “Eh, I’m not really feelin’ that.”
DJ Booth: Well, hopefully you and Chuck will be able to get on that same page sometime in the near future and give everybody what I’m sure what would be a welcome open arms to a new Public Enemy album. Hank, give everybody a website or a Myspace page so they can find out more about what you have going on in addition to, of course, your inclusion on the “American Gangster” soundtrack.
Hank Shocklee: Cool. You can hit up everything at shocklee.com.
DJ Booth: Great. Well Hank, I appreciate your time tremendously, and I wish you nothing but the best of luck with your career moving forward.
Hank Shocklee: Thanks a lot, Z.
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